From: TDErikson

The problem with the Tories is that they refuse to pledge the one referendum they could have the power to hold - a retrospective referendum, on attaining office, to REPEAL the new Treaty if meanwhile they find it has been installed without one.

The reason why they refuse to pledge this is that they realise that it would not in fact be possible to unpick the latest treaty from the previous treaties which it will have amended, since the previous treaties by then will no longer exist in an unamended form. It would therefore necessarily be in fact an In/Out referendum, whatever the wording of the question on the ballot paper, and make no mistake that during any campaign this would be made crystal-clear by Brussels so that everyone in Britain was made aware of it before going to vote. Now, since the Tories' top priority is for the UK to stay in the EU at all costs (even at the cost of destroying the Tory party itself), they will never propose this sort of referendum. They will hum and haw, they will make noises that could let people believe that they are in favour of this sort of referendum. But they will never pledge themselves to it. Not really. (They might make a false pledge, like the pledge to withdraw their MEPs from the EPP, but when it came to the point they would clearly never fulfil it. This is essentially what distinguishes UKIP from the Tories.)

The fact remains that the other states (or their political elites, with really negligeable internal oppositions) are dead set on turning the EU into a state in its own right, which is what the new Treaty will do. For them the new Treaty is therefore mandatory for the continuation of the EU itself.

And while they absolutely had to pause and wait for France to sort itself out and catch up, for without its Franco-German core the EU cannot exist, they simply can't afford any longer to be held up by anybody else, and certainly not by Britain.

So even if Brown did an about-turn now and held a referendum prior to ratification, the message would come through from Brussels loud and clear "If any state fails to ratify the new Treaty, the other EU states will regroup and go ahead without it, so it will be excluded from the EU entirely." This message would come through loud and clear and during the referendum campaign. I expect they would even bluff that if the UK excluded itself from the new Treaty and therefore from the new EU, it would also suffer a cut-off of all trading arrangements with the EU (so raising the old spectre of 3m jobs at risk etc). Of course this would surely be a bluff, because of the trade figures in their favour that we know about etc, but they would try it on during the referendum campaign in the hope of stampeding the British people into panicking and voting to accept the new Treaty.

Believe me, there is no mood here on the continent to wait any longer before installing the new Treaty. No mood whatsoever. It will have to be in place by 2009, as programmed. This is perceived by all parts of the continental political spectrum as a categorical imperative. The only thing that would hold up the onward march to full statehood now would be a defection by France or Germany, but that is not on the cards any more (the French largely voted No to the constitution because in contrast to us they feared it would be too liberal and too pro-free market (!!). The French do not like free markets. Sarkozy has taken out the reference to free markets, so there will be no more back-sliding there).

So the choice for the British people is going to be between:

IN the new EU, accepting the new Treaty, accepting to be ruled from Brussels, with no possibility of reversing this in future,
or
OUT (and they will wave the bogey of "no more trade", so 3m jobs at risk etc)

It will not be UKIP posing the question in this way, as some Tories foolishly maintain.It will be Brussels. This is how the question will be posed, in actual fact, if we ever get any referendum, whatever UKIP says or does.

WE MUST BE BRACED FOR THIS.

The only way to win this choice, is to show that in fact, staying IN will mean accepting the EUROGENDARMERIE which will force on us, at gunpoint, changes so basic and radical that it will be a far worse nightmare than any prospect of being outside the EU could possibly ever be, even if 3M jobs really were at risk which is most unlikely.

And we must list what these changes would be, and explain them to the people of Britain, viz:

- Loss of rights of individual freedom from arbitrary imprisonment eg Habeas corpus, Trial by Independent Jury etc. Imposition of an alien criminal code (Corpus Juris) and civil codes which will be administered by an unaccountable career judiciary largely made up of foreigners who do not share our values, who will have uncontrolled power over the personal freedom and property of each and every one of us.

- Being policed by a centrally commanded, unaccountable, heavily armed and militarised police force - the Eurogendarmerie and Europol, made up of foreigners (even Turks are to be recruited - official, see the Treaty of Velsen), immune from prosecution whatever they do, subject to orders from Brussels only, so completely out of the control of our Queen in Parliament. They will look like, feel like, act like, and actually be, a FORCE OF MILITARY OCCUPATION, tasked with subjugating the natives (us). Jimmy Goldsmith said we would be "subjugated". This is what he meant. Getting on to be like if the Wehrmacht had successfully invaded and occupied us in 1940. Something this country has never seen since 1066.

- Increase of the hyper-regulation strangling all private economic activity to the point where all business people, from the humblest shop keeper on the corner right up to the Chairman of the biggest corporation in the city, has to go on bended knee to the politicians who control the regulators, with a brown envelope on a silver tray, simply in order to be able to operate. This is a message we must get out to the movers and shakers in British big biz, who short-sightedly still believe that it is in their business interests for the UK to remain in the EU. If we stay inside, they will find to their surprise that their own personal positions will change radically. From being the big boys who call the shots, as they are at present in the Anglo-Saxon world, they will have become the playthings of politicians, as their counter-parts are and always have been on the continent. As it is and always has been over there, so also in the North West island provinces (formerly Britain) it will be politicians - Euro-politicians - who decide which businesses succeed and which go to the wall, not the markets or the consumers. The richest man in Italy - Berlusconi - had to become a politician himself, because that is where all the power lies. If he hadn't, and he said it himself, his enemies would have ruined him.